Thank you for the estimate that we had not viewed in advance of
I’m not sure if you had the means to access Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, because it try written while the a resource to possess People in america with colonial ancestors regarding Plantagenet origin. He offers among his proofs one to Joanna was the mom of Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn provided brand new qualities of Knighton and you can Norton castles within the Shropshire to help you Ralph Mortimer when he and you will Gwladus was hitched. It would was unlawful to own Llewelyn giving Joanna’s possessions to an enthusiastic illegitimate child (otherwise individual who wasn’t a baby regarding Joanna). Brand new properties out-of Norton and you will Knighton stayed about Mortimer loved ones thereafter. New quote try, “Whenever the brand new Queen give Property to a man having a good lady out of his kindred from inside the frank relationships, in addition to woman dyeth in place of topic, the person regarding the Kings instance shall perhaps not hold it to have his existence, as the woman caused the the present.” This means that, new functions might have reverted returning to the newest crown ahead of it would have been supplied to a child who was not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I did not have access to the fresh new Plantaganet Origins from the Doug Richardson, however, performed gain access to many conversations involving him and you may his concepts along with other genealogists (specific to have your, but the majority of and facing). I do believe, when i made in my early in the day papers, you to definitely exactly what shifts it for me(Joanna as the mother regarding Gwladus), is the transfer of one’s functions your explore to help you Ralph de Mortimer through to his ed two of its pupils ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I cannot suppose that when the Gwladus got new ded their own people therefore. Inspite of the objections between the eminent genealogists We speak about over, there clearly was a standard consensus you to definitely Gwladus Ddu would be relatively identified as the latest child of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth because of the Joanna, daughter (next legitimised) of John, King out-of The united kingdomt. I want to need it possible opportunity to trust Sharon (into the a message for me) you to definitely Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian is actually by the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and thus becoming blood aunt in order to Gruffudd. I feet so it partially towards a contemporary record included in ‘Regal or any other Historical characters Illustrative of leadership away from Henry 111,’ modified from the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol 1. For the pages 500-503 's the transcript of exclusive page old Marshall, Earl away from Pembroke, so you’re able to King Henry 111. Inside page, Marshall covers his siege of your own castles regarding Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. He listings the folks the guy found in the palace O’Realy whenever it surrendered, it provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre ainsi que matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I am advised this implies that we have here Gwenllian, daughter off Prince llywelyn, whom seems to be called ‘sister of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd become the brand new illegitimate young man off Llywelyn, it is taken one ‘de patre ainsi que matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd were complete blood sibling and sister. Had Gwenllian been Joanna’s daughter hence Queen Henry’s niece, definitely Marshall will have mentioned thereon reality? That it incapacity away from de Lacy’s wife once the king’s niece, is pulled as close certain evidence that Gwenllian wasn’t brand new child of the king’s cousin Joanna.
This type of features were element of Joanna’s maritagium out of their father Queen John
Ken: Thank you for you to definitely mention of Gwenllian. I’m definitely not a professional genealogist, https://kissbrides.com/web-stories/top-10-hot-honduran-women/ but I do loads of search on my own outlines. I believe some of the “pros” are extremely jealous and you may frustrated of each most other (at the very least obviously means in certain of all things it blog post). You’ll find items that our company is not gonna see with full confidence regarding the people in the fresh new MA as they failed to remain public record information such as for example i would now, thus genealogists and you can historians have to use their best wisdom into the sorting some thing out. In reality, public record information was a fairly “new” design – of several says here in the usa failed to continue information out of births and you may fatalities through to the early 1900’s. We get into multiple ancestry communities in which I have had to help you establish 11 or twelve years, and you may trust in me it is not easy. Thus i very appreciate the challenge out-of evaluating MA ancestors. (And sad question is that the facts available on the MA try of the royalty and nobility – little anyway for the prominent anybody).